{"id":1503,"date":"2024-10-06T19:26:57","date_gmt":"2024-10-06T23:26:57","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/boppers.net\/blog\/?p=1503"},"modified":"2024-10-06T19:26:59","modified_gmt":"2024-10-06T23:26:59","slug":"separation-of-church-and-state-related-thoughts","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/boppers.net\/blog\/philosophy-religion\/separation-of-church-and-state-related-thoughts\/","title":{"rendered":"Separation of church and state \u2013 related thoughts"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Harry Baya   October 6, 2024.<br \/>\n[ I would probably benefit from watching Cellia Young\u2019s talk today, Oct6, 2024,<br \/>\nagain.  I zoned out on parts of it.-also I need to know if, and how, I could view<br \/>\nolder talks ]<br \/>\nHowever, I do have a few comments.<br \/>\nThe first is that when I, and I think most people, think about an issue that has<br \/>\naspects of the role of government in relation to region \u2013 including the extent to<br \/>\nwhich government choices are influenced by religions ( beliefs, traditions, leaders<br \/>\nwith particular religious views)  -my point of view is more from a kind<br \/>\nconglomeration of all aspects of my life \u2013 including what we call culture \u2013 the<br \/>\nmovies, books, classes, discussions, values, experience and all of having grown up<br \/>\nand been part of the mainstream culture of most U.S. citizens.   This inner source<br \/>\nof values and weighted logic does not lend itself easily to distinguishing one<br \/>\nthread, such as the influence of the state, or the influence of various aspect of my<br \/>\nreligious experience, learning, and bias.  It\u2019s all just a giant cloud like ecology of<br \/>\nmany sources out of which come my thoughts views and decisions.<br \/>\nThe second thing I want to comment on is that part of the discussions of these<br \/>\nareas try to come up with precedents, choices made in the past, many of which<br \/>\nwere at various points attempted to be codified in precise language.  I think of<br \/>\nthings like the ten commandments,  the U.S. Constitution, the bill of rights.  More<br \/>\nbroadly this includes things  like all the legal rulings made by our courts system,<br \/>\nand  religions texts (The bible, the koran, etc. ).<br \/>\nThese statements were created in hope of capturing a particular set of rules or<br \/>\nguidelines that seemed most appropriate when they were created.   We act as if<br \/>\nthose words should continue to be honored today.  We act as if to disagree with<br \/>\nthem is heretical, or traitorous, or somehow  doing something that will harm the<br \/>\nwell being of the human race.   Our speeches look back to transition points when<br \/>\nnew views, such democracy vs autocracy, came into being and try to justify our<br \/>\nindividual current views by saying that are coherent with past highly honored<br \/>\nstatements.<br \/>\nHowever it seems to me that I, and perhaps we, are missing the point that people<br \/>\ncan want what they want without having to have some sort of historical<br \/>\nprecedent.<br \/>\nIf a U.S. citizen does not like a point of view clearly stated by our constitution,<br \/>\nthen they are entitled to hold that view without being imprisoned for just stating<br \/>\nit.   Individual citizens with diverse views must deal with the culture they are in.<br \/>\nThey should be allowed to have, and state, preferences \u2013 but what actions they<br \/>\ntake may be restricted by their culture.<br \/>\nThe extreme example is something like \u201cyou can\u2019t yell fire in a crowded theater\u201d.<br \/>\nIndividuals must deal with the laws that could be applied to them.  Sometimes<br \/>\nthose laws are unfair.  Then individuals must work to change those laws they think<br \/>\nare unfair.<br \/>\nWhat if the \u201cunfair\u201d laws say that it is criminal to work to have those laws<br \/>\nchanged.   Well that\u2019s an area I have nothing wise to say about at the moment.   In<br \/>\nother cases the the laws\/guidelines\/rules permit working to change them, but the<br \/>\ntask may be difficult and may even take generations, as was the case with<br \/>\nabolishing slavery.<br \/>\nI read a quote today from a movie, A League of their own,  (Tom Hanks, Gena<br \/>\nDavis).   \u201cIt&#8217;s supposed to be hard. If it were easy, everyone would do it\u201d<br \/>\nI just finished reading \u201cDeath by Black Hole\u201d.  The last few chapters dealt with<br \/>\nsome issues related to religion vs science.   The author stated that because science<br \/>\nis based on verifiable facts, repeatable experiences, while religion is based on<br \/>\nfaith, whether or not that which if believed is verifiable.   The result is that though<br \/>\nscience may make large blunders, incorrect assumptions and theories, over the<br \/>\nlong run they are self correcting by the ongoing use of the scientific approach<br \/>\n(experiements, facts, checking ).  In contrast religion has no such self correcting<br \/>\nprocess \u2013 it can change \u2013 but only to different things to be take on faith.<br \/>\nI suggest that, ideally, the evolution of the cultures of the human race are more<br \/>\nlike science than religion.   However I see little evidence of progress in my lifetime,<br \/>\nnor in history as I understand it.  I see \u201cprogress\u201d in growing human populations,<br \/>\ncomplexities in many ares (psychological, scientific, technology, religion etc. ) but I<br \/>\ndo not see progress toward a more stable world, a world that is more satisfying<br \/>\nhumans, a world where humans are likely to survive.<br \/>\nWhat triggered all this was the awareness that all our values and preferences are<br \/>\nin some sense valid \u2013 even if they are not acceptable in a particular context.  If<br \/>\nsome people want the U.S. government to be modified to have more of Chritianity<br \/>\nin it \u2013 that\u2019s a valid goal \u2013 even if it\u2019s not what the founding fathers wanted.<br \/>\nPeople can want something different from what their tradition says was right.<br \/>\nSo be it.<br \/>\nHarry Baya   October 6, 2024<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Harry Baya October 6, 2024. [ I would probably benefit from watching Cellia Young\u2019s talk today, Oct6, 2024, again. I zoned out on parts of it.-also I need to know if, and how, I could view older talks ] However, I do have a few comments. The first is that when I, and I think [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":46,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"ngg_post_thumbnail":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1503","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-philosophy-religion"],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/boppers.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1503","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/boppers.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/boppers.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/boppers.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/46"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/boppers.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1503"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/boppers.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1503\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1504,"href":"https:\/\/boppers.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1503\/revisions\/1504"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/boppers.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1503"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/boppers.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1503"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/boppers.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1503"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}